NBA Roundtable

Phoenix Trade For Turkoglu + Childress

In Free Agency, Trade Talk on July 12, 2010 at 3:57 am

David Aldridge reports

The Phoenix Suns didn’t want their summer to be defined by losing Amar’e Stoudemire to the New York Knicks, and they made sure of it Sunday night with two major deals, acquiring veteran forward Hedo Turkoglu from the Toronto Raptors for guard Leandro Barbosa and agreeing to a trade with the Atlanta Hawks that will bring restricted free agent Josh Childress, whose rights the Hawks still hold, to Phoenix in exchange for a second-round pick. Childress will receive a five-year, $34 million deal from Phoenix.Turkoglu and Childress were both coveted by the Suns’ former general manager, Steve Kerr, and even after his departure the club went ahead and got both players, who will bring much-needed depth to one of the league’s older teams and provide help in several ways for Steve Nash and Grant Hill next season. The Arizona Republic first reported the Turkoglu acquisition and Yahoo! Sports first reported the Childress trade.


Hedo Turkoglu

Hedo Turkoglu is a very bad fit in Phoenix. He is only a high level player when he is allowed to spend time on the ball and he won’t get those touches + opportunities while playing alongside Steve Nash. Turkoglu will once again be the equivalent of a role player.

Ergo, that is a horrible trade for Phoenix due to the cost of Turkoglu’s contract ($40+ million over four years).

Josh Childress

I am taking a wait and see approach to Josh Childress. I want to see how his game has improved (or not) after spending two years in Europe.

I will say that I would under no circumstances condone any team giving Childress an MLE offer based on his work with the Atlanta Hawks. You don’t give that type of money to player who is a below average defender, who can’t shoot and cannot create his own shot. A player who is effectively a garbage man wing player.

Maybe he has improved in Europe. Worked on his defense. Added more of a jump shot. Hopefully … otherwise, this is another very poor deal.

Suns Spending

  • $40+ million for Turkoglu over four years
  • $33 million for Childress over five years
  • $30 million for Channing Frye over five years
  • $16-18 million for Warrick over four years

These are the types of moves a club should not make when the core of their team is in tatters. These moves will inhibit the Suns ability to build a contender.

Even if Childress has improved and that is a good individual contract … given the state of the team, adding that contract to their current predicament was a mistake (short term gain, long term pain).

Toronto Raptors Payroll

A very good decision to get out of Turkoglu’s contract. Two years at $14 million is an excellent alternative.

The Raptors are clearly rebuilding now and a player of Turkoglu’s age + contract + needs has no place in a side like that. Also, the Raptors were unwilling to turn over enough of their offense to Hedo’s playmaking which relegated him to the supporting cast which also made his contract an albatross.

In summary, excellent move to get out of Hedo’s contract.

Leandro Barbosa

Leandro Barbosa had a very poor season last year but there is a good chance that he can rebound and get back to his scoring best next season.

That said, Barbosa is a very poor defender + a very poor rebounder + a non-passer. His negatives in these areas negate the value of his scoring.

Simply put, Barbosa isn’t a valuable player because of his lack of contributions outside of scoring.

Raptors 2010/11

The Raptors are going to take a pretty big hit here … which is okay because they should be rebuilding rather than trying to cover up systemic problems with band aids.

The downgrade from Turkoglu to Barbosa is a large one and it’ll be felt most of the offensive end. The Raptors benefited significantly from Turkoglu’s passing ability and shooting ability offensively, it helped create a more dynamic offense and better overall spacing for the team. Even if they underused it.

The loss of that weapon will lower the Raptors offensive efficiency significantly. Perhaps more so than the loss of Chris Bosh.

Eastern Playoff Picture

The top seven seeds in the East look locked in. That eight seed was up for grabs and due to the lack of quality teams in that bracket the Raptors had a real chance of nabbing that slot.

Well, they did, prior to this trade. They don’t anymore.

Atlanta Hawks

Good job by Atlanta. They had no leverage and managed to get a second round pick.

Also, I think we can put to rest those Marvin Williams trade rumours. Or at least those Marvin Williams salary dump trade rumours in order to facilitate the signing of Josh Childress.


Toronto Raptors

The big winners of this trade. They have drastically improved their long term future by dumping Turkoglu (short term pain, long term gain).

Phoenix Suns

The big losers of this trade. They have drastically hurt their long term future by adding Turkoglu and Childress in addition to Warrick and Frye. These high priced moves for role players are going to bite them on the ass.

Atlanta Hawks

Largely irrelevant, did what they could. Well done.

  1. Nice post bud, I really enjoyed reading it! Anyways…The Suns are going to have quite a different look next year but it is not going to be a good one. I don’t see how Turkoglu can do well in Phoenix with Nash handling the ball all the time. Giving these big contracts to these players is not the way to go IMO. I think it would be best for the Suns to start rebuilding which obviously isn’t going to happen. Warrick cannot replace Stoudemire, Frye has pretty much hit his peak, and Childress was not too successful in Greece. This is probably a good move for the Raps as they are going to get rid of a couple contracts, but on the flip side they have signed Amir and maybe Kleiza to bad contracts so it’s a very contradictory move. Will be interesting to see how it all works out.

  2. Were there any truth to the rumors of Barbosa being sent to Charlotte for Boris Diaw?

  3. Marc Stein is reporting the deal is to be, “Deal as reported by multiple outlets has Raps getting Barbosa/T. Chandler/Diaw, Bobs getting Calderon (and now Evans) and Suns getting Hedo.”

    What ya think of Barbosa/T. Chandler/Diaw in a Raps Uni?

    Bigs – T.Chandler, Andrea, Amir, Ed Davis, S. Alabi, Joey Dorsey
    Wings – Diaw, Weems, Derozan, Marco B.
    Guards – Jack, Barbosa, Banks

    I think that’s everybody, looking like a starting line up of Chandler, Andrea, Diaw, Derozan and Jack.

  4. If I were creating the starting lineup based on the two trades:
    pg: jack
    sg: barbosa
    sf: diaw
    pf: johnson
    c: chandler

    Barbosa brings some needed offense and the others cover his rebounding and defense. The second unit of Marco, Dero, Kleiza/Weems, Davis and Andrea would be one of the best in the league and where the games would be won

  5. Yeah, I couldn’t find out exactly which players were involved in the trade with Charlotte earlier on so I haven’t written anything about it yet. Not enough specifics available (Jose involved? Tyson involved? Is it just Diaw for a trade exception?).

    I need to read some more on that now …

    First reaction — Bobcats trade was a terrible move for Toronto.
    Second reaction — very good trade for Charlotte

  6. Some updates on the situation

    Yahoo Sports reported 14 hours ago

    Tyson Chandler confirmed to Yahoo! Sports that he is being traded from the Charlotte Bobcats to the Toronto Raptors as part of a three-team deal that also includes the Phoenix Suns.

    The Arizona Republic reported the Suns would receive Hedo Turkoglu in the trade while sending Leandro Barbosa to the Raptors. The Toronto Star has reported that Charlotte could also send forward Boris Diaw to the Raptors as well as Chandler for guard Jose Calderon. Raptors forward Reggie Evans also could be traded to Charlotte in the deal, which is still being worked out.

    In a separate transaction, the Suns acquired forward Josh Childress in a sign-and-trade deal with the Atlanta Hawks. Childress will get a five-year, $34 million contract.

    Yahoo Sports reported 5 hours ago

    The sudden reluctance of Charlotte owner Michael Jordan has thrust the proposed Toronto-Charlotte trade into jeopardy, multiple league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Monday night.

    “Right now, Michael is having second thoughts,” a source with knowledge of the talks told Yahoo! Sports.

    The trade isn’t dead, the sources said, but the two sides will talk again on Tuesday morning and the Raptors will try to push the deal through to completion. Toronto general manager Bryan Colangelo is anxious to complete the trade.

    So, it’s unclear whether this trade will go through or not.

    It appears to be three separate deals:

    (1) A three team trade between Phoenix, Toronto and Charlotte. The Raptors would send Turkoglu to Phoenix + Calderon and Evans to Charlotte. The Raptors would acquire Barbosa and T.Chandler. The Bobcats would send Chandler to Toronto in exchange for Jose Calderon and R.Evans. The Suns would receive Turkoglu for Barbosa.
    (2) Then the Bobcats would send Boris Diaw to Toronto for a Raptors trade exception
    (3) While the Hawks send Childress in a sign and trade to Phoenix for the Suns trade exception

    Sorry, it’s all one trade. The difference in money from Turkoglu to Barbosa allows the Raptors to take on both Chandler + Diaw without touching their trade exception. I was only thinking of Calderon + Evans to Charlotte for Bobcats players … Turkoglu for Barbosa makes it work … The Raptors will keep their entire trade exception.

    And then the Childress deal is separate.

    Thoughts On Trade For Toronto

    #1 – The Raptors would become the worst offensive team in the league. The losses of Turkoglu and Calderon will have a massive effect.

    Their effect will be substantially higher than normal due to the nature of the Raptors roster (the loss of Bosh, the lack of other go-to scorers creating an over-reliance on their passing ability).

    #2 – Toronto should be a respectable defensive team but it’s hard to be more precise than that due to question marks over who starts + what lineups + what minutes each player plays.

    For example, if Tyson starts and plays 30-35 minutes a night along with Diaw, Jack and DeRozan the Raptors should be a top 12 defensive team. If Tyson comes off the bench behind Bargnani and plays 15 minutes a night, the Raptors would still be a below average defensive team. Is Bargnani the four alongside Chandler or the five alongside Amir, Davis or Diaw? Who is the other starting wing alongside DeRozan?

    There are also questions about what position Diaw will play (small forward or power forward) and how many minutes Davis + Amir will get. Then there’s Kleiza and Barbosa and where do they fit in.


    The deal is dead

    The part of a complex Raptors deal that would have sent Jose Calderon and Reggie Evans to Charlotte is dead, killed by Bobcats owner Michael Jordan, according to league sources.

    The teams had signed off on the transaction that would have shipped Boris Diaw and Tyson Chandler to Toronto early Monday afternoon – with Chandler being told he was to become a Raptor – before it died later in the day.

    The other part of the transaction – Hedo Turkoglu from Toronto to Phoenix for Leandro Barbosa – is still a go and could be finished as early as today.

  7. An interesting note on Josh Childress from an interview with Suns owner Robert Sarver

    On getting moves done without a GM:

    “No, no, no, not at all. Listen we have 20 people that work on our basketball operations staff, a lot of smart people and we rely on them. As an example, Todd Quinter was the one that really pushed hard on the Josh Childress issue and so we’ve got a lot of good people.”

    There were a lot of questions about why Childress was signed when Phoenix had so many options at the wing positions and especially at small forward (Grant Hill, Jared Dudley, Hedo Turkoglu) + questions about how influential former agent Lon Babby was in signing him … just interesting to note the idea was pushed hard by someone else.

    Also, Sarver explained the Turkoglu trade

    On why they went after Hedo Turkoglu:

    “Number one he can really help create his own shot so I think he’ll add some help to Steve. A lot of pressure comes on Steve during the game and especially at the end of the game to create, but Hedo can create. He’s proven that he knows how to do that and he’s hit big shots in big games, so that’s number one.

    Number two he can play four different positions. So he gives us a lot of flexibility. Then finally he really wanted to come to Phoenix and was willing to wave 80 percent of his trade kicker and half of his last year’s guarantee which was 12 million four years from now which we were most concerned about. He really helped us facilitate it. We really thought he could help us with Steve and that’s why we wanted to do it. We’ve been talking about it for a quite a while.

    Brian (Colangelo) and I actually had conversations three weeks ago. I actually even brought it up to Amare and said hey this could be a piece that could really help us get over the hump if we could land him. We’ve been thinking about him and trying to figure out a way to get him to Phoenix for quite awhile.”

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