David Aldridge reports
The Phoenix Suns didn’t want their summer to be defined by losing Amar’e Stoudemire to the New York Knicks, and they made sure of it Sunday night with two major deals, acquiring veteran forward Hedo Turkoglu from the Toronto Raptors for guard Leandro Barbosa and agreeing to a trade with the Atlanta Hawks that will bring restricted free agent Josh Childress, whose rights the Hawks still hold, to Phoenix in exchange for a second-round pick. Childress will receive a five-year, $34 million deal from Phoenix.Turkoglu and Childress were both coveted by the Suns’ former general manager, Steve Kerr, and even after his departure the club went ahead and got both players, who will bring much-needed depth to one of the league’s older teams and provide help in several ways for Steve Nash and Grant Hill next season. The Arizona Republic first reported the Turkoglu acquisition and Yahoo! Sports first reported the Childress trade.
Thoughts
Hedo Turkoglu
Hedo Turkoglu is a very bad fit in Phoenix. He is only a high level player when he is allowed to spend time on the ball and he won’t get those touches + opportunities while playing alongside Steve Nash. Turkoglu will once again be the equivalent of a role player.
Ergo, that is a horrible trade for Phoenix due to the cost of Turkoglu’s contract ($40+ million over four years).
Josh Childress
I am taking a wait and see approach to Josh Childress. I want to see how his game has improved (or not) after spending two years in Europe.
I will say that I would under no circumstances condone any team giving Childress an MLE offer based on his work with the Atlanta Hawks. You don’t give that type of money to player who is a below average defender, who can’t shoot and cannot create his own shot. A player who is effectively a garbage man wing player.
Maybe he has improved in Europe. Worked on his defense. Added more of a jump shot. Hopefully … otherwise, this is another very poor deal.
Suns Spending
- $40+ million for Turkoglu over four years
- $33 million for Childress over five years
- $30 million for Channing Frye over five years
- $16-18 million for Warrick over four years
These are the types of moves a club should not make when the core of their team is in tatters. These moves will inhibit the Suns ability to build a contender.
Even if Childress has improved and that is a good individual contract … given the state of the team, adding that contract to their current predicament was a mistake (short term gain, long term pain).
Toronto Raptors Payroll
A very good decision to get out of Turkoglu’s contract. Two years at $14 million is an excellent alternative.
The Raptors are clearly rebuilding now and a player of Turkoglu’s age + contract + needs has no place in a side like that. Also, the Raptors were unwilling to turn over enough of their offense to Hedo’s playmaking which relegated him to the supporting cast which also made his contract an albatross.
In summary, excellent move to get out of Hedo’s contract.
Leandro Barbosa
Leandro Barbosa had a very poor season last year but there is a good chance that he can rebound and get back to his scoring best next season.
That said, Barbosa is a very poor defender + a very poor rebounder + a non-passer. His negatives in these areas negate the value of his scoring.
Simply put, Barbosa isn’t a valuable player because of his lack of contributions outside of scoring.
Raptors 2010/11
The Raptors are going to take a pretty big hit here … which is okay because they should be rebuilding rather than trying to cover up systemic problems with band aids.
The downgrade from Turkoglu to Barbosa is a large one and it’ll be felt most of the offensive end. The Raptors benefited significantly from Turkoglu’s passing ability and shooting ability offensively, it helped create a more dynamic offense and better overall spacing for the team. Even if they underused it.
The loss of that weapon will lower the Raptors offensive efficiency significantly. Perhaps more so than the loss of Chris Bosh.
Eastern Playoff Picture
The top seven seeds in the East look locked in. That eight seed was up for grabs and due to the lack of quality teams in that bracket the Raptors had a real chance of nabbing that slot.
Well, they did, prior to this trade. They don’t anymore.
Atlanta Hawks
Good job by Atlanta. They had no leverage and managed to get a second round pick.
Also, I think we can put to rest those Marvin Williams trade rumours. Or at least those Marvin Williams salary dump trade rumours in order to facilitate the signing of Josh Childress.
Summary
Toronto Raptors
The big winners of this trade. They have drastically improved their long term future by dumping Turkoglu (short term pain, long term gain).
Phoenix Suns
The big losers of this trade. They have drastically hurt their long term future by adding Turkoglu and Childress in addition to Warrick and Frye. These high priced moves for role players are going to bite them on the ass.
Atlanta Hawks
Largely irrelevant, did what they could. Well done.
Chris Ross
July 12, 2010
Nice post bud, I really enjoyed reading it! Anyways…The Suns are going to have quite a different look next year but it is not going to be a good one. I don’t see how Turkoglu can do well in Phoenix with Nash handling the ball all the time. Giving these big contracts to these players is not the way to go IMO. I think it would be best for the Suns to start rebuilding which obviously isn’t going to happen. Warrick cannot replace Stoudemire, Frye has pretty much hit his peak, and Childress was not too successful in Greece. This is probably a good move for the Raps as they are going to get rid of a couple contracts, but on the flip side they have signed Amir and maybe Kleiza to bad contracts so it’s a very contradictory move. Will be interesting to see how it all works out.
http://chrisross91.wordpress.com/
Simon Says
July 12, 2010
Were there any truth to the rumors of Barbosa being sent to Charlotte for Boris Diaw?
Simon Says
July 12, 2010
Marc Stein is reporting the deal is to be, “Deal as reported by multiple outlets has Raps getting Barbosa/T. Chandler/Diaw, Bobs getting Calderon (and now Evans) and Suns getting Hedo.”
What ya think of Barbosa/T. Chandler/Diaw in a Raps Uni?
Bigs – T.Chandler, Andrea, Amir, Ed Davis, S. Alabi, Joey Dorsey
Wings – Diaw, Weems, Derozan, Marco B.
Guards – Jack, Barbosa, Banks
I think that’s everybody, looking like a starting line up of Chandler, Andrea, Diaw, Derozan and Jack.
Dino Gunners
July 12, 2010
If I were creating the starting lineup based on the two trades:
pg: jack
sg: barbosa
sf: diaw
pf: johnson
c: chandler
Barbosa brings some needed offense and the others cover his rebounding and defense. The second unit of Marco, Dero, Kleiza/Weems, Davis and Andrea would be one of the best in the league and where the games would be won
Dave
July 13, 2010
Yeah, I couldn’t find out exactly which players were involved in the trade with Charlotte earlier on so I haven’t written anything about it yet. Not enough specifics available (Jose involved? Tyson involved? Is it just Diaw for a trade exception?).
I need to read some more on that now …
First reaction — Bobcats trade was a terrible move for Toronto.
Second reaction — very good trade for Charlotte
Dave
July 13, 2010
Some updates on the situation
Yahoo Sports reported 14 hours ago
Yahoo Sports reported 5 hours ago
So, it’s unclear whether this trade will go through or not.
It appears to be three separate deals:
(1) A three team trade between Phoenix, Toronto and Charlotte. The Raptors would send Turkoglu to Phoenix + Calderon and Evans to Charlotte. The Raptors would acquire Barbosa and T.Chandler. The Bobcats would send Chandler to Toronto in exchange for Jose Calderon and R.Evans. The Suns would receive Turkoglu for Barbosa.
(2) Then the Bobcats would send Boris Diaw to Toronto for a Raptors trade exception(3) While the Hawks send Childress in a sign and trade to Phoenix for the Suns trade exception
Sorry, it’s all one trade. The difference in money from Turkoglu to Barbosa allows the Raptors to take on both Chandler + Diaw without touching their trade exception. I was only thinking of Calderon + Evans to Charlotte for Bobcats players … Turkoglu for Barbosa makes it work … The Raptors will keep their entire trade exception.
And then the Childress deal is separate.
Thoughts On Trade For Toronto
#1 – The Raptors would become the worst offensive team in the league. The losses of Turkoglu and Calderon will have a massive effect.
Their effect will be substantially higher than normal due to the nature of the Raptors roster (the loss of Bosh, the lack of other go-to scorers creating an over-reliance on their passing ability).
#2 – Toronto should be a respectable defensive team but it’s hard to be more precise than that due to question marks over who starts + what lineups + what minutes each player plays.
For example, if Tyson starts and plays 30-35 minutes a night along with Diaw, Jack and DeRozan the Raptors should be a top 12 defensive team. If Tyson comes off the bench behind Bargnani and plays 15 minutes a night, the Raptors would still be a below average defensive team. Is Bargnani the four alongside Chandler or the five alongside Amir, Davis or Diaw? Who is the other starting wing alongside DeRozan?
There are also questions about what position Diaw will play (small forward or power forward) and how many minutes Davis + Amir will get. Then there’s Kleiza and Barbosa and where do they fit in.
Update
The deal is dead
Dave
July 31, 2010
An interesting note on Josh Childress from an interview with Suns owner Robert Sarver
There were a lot of questions about why Childress was signed when Phoenix had so many options at the wing positions and especially at small forward (Grant Hill, Jared Dudley, Hedo Turkoglu) + questions about how influential former agent Lon Babby was in signing him … just interesting to note the idea was pushed hard by someone else.
Also, Sarver explained the Turkoglu trade